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Δευτέρα 28 Νοεμβρίου 2011

New Catholic Mass Translation Raises Doubts


New Catholic Mass Translation Raises Doubts

14 comments New Catholic Mass Translation Raises Doubts
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This Sunday, a new translation of the Roman Catholic Mass was introduced into parishes throughout the English-speaking world. The new English version of the Roman Missal, the book of texts and prayers used in the Catholic Mass, is intended to be more faithful to the Latin original. Reactions to the new translation have been mixed, with some wondering whether the more Latinate, more formal, somewhat stilted and still very unfamiliar translation might make it more challenging for the Church to attract young people while alienating worshippers who have, over decades, come to associate the saying of certain words with the Mass.
Roman Catholics worshipped in Latin until Vatican II in the 1960s, when the Church decreed that the Mass could be celebrated in the vernacular. The English translation used until this very weekend was published in the early 1970s and modified in 1985. While a new translation was completed in 1998 and approved by the the bishops’ conference, the Vatican never agreed to it. In 2001, Rome issued new guidelines for a new translation that would follow not only every Latin word, but also the Latin syntax, as closely as possible, “a dramatic philosophical shift from the more flexible principle of ‘dynamic equivalence’ that had guided the earlier translations.”
Emotional Reactions to the New Mass
Debate about using the new translation has been so heated that the Rev. Michael Ryan, pastor of St. James Cathedral in Seattle, started an online petition on the website whatifwejustsaidwait.org to call for postponing the use of the new translation of the Mass. The requirement to use the new translation has led to a debate that
…has been angry and bitter, exposing rifts between a Vatican-led church hierarchy that has promoted the new translation as more reverential and accurate, and critics, among them hundreds of priests, who fear it is a retreat from the commitment of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s to allowing people to pray in a simple, clear vernacular as they participate in the church’s sacred rites.
Danielle McGinley, 31, a parishioner at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in downtown Los Angeles, said she thought the new translation sounded “more like a Spanish Mass” and liked it. Lucy Teves, a vice-principal at a Catholic school in Kingston, Ontario, voiced other concerns:
“I think there’s a real disconnect for the young people. I feel this is a step backwards. The language is going to be difficult for them to connect. I’m just thinking about my 20-year-old son and others like him who are struggling anyway.”
73-year-old George Lind in New York said he became so “angry” when trying to say the words of the new translation that he actually stopped speaking and expressed frustration with the top-down imposition of the new Mass:
“I am so tired of being told exactly what I have to say, exactly what I have to pray. I believe in God, and to me that is the important thing. This is some attempt on the part of the church hierarchy to look important.”
But Frank Spezzano of the Toronto area, who can quote from the original Latin Mass used in pre-Vatican II services, said he found the new translation not so different from the older one.
The congregation of Corpus Christi Church in Morningside Heights on the Upper West Side in New York never fully adopted the more modernized version of the Mass that church authorities had required after Vatican II. As Brenda Fairaday, who has been worshipping at the church (the parish church ofColumbia University) since the 1970s, “There are a lot of us who feel that the last 35 years of translation has been very banal and pedestrian, and the way that one wants to address God in a liturgy should not be pedestrian.” While she feels the news translation is an improvement, she still thinks it is in need of some “severe editing.”
Something Is Always Lost in Translation
As a college teacher of Latin, and a translator of Latin poetry to English, I’m inclined to find any translation of the original Latin to be in need of at least a little editing.
’ve studied Latin for decades. I am not Catholic but have attended Catholic masses and witnessed how readily people speak the words of the liturgy. The new translation is more faithful, in the most literal sense, to the Latin original. In response to the priest saying “The Lord be with you” (Dominus vobiscum), the congregation is now to say “and with your spirit,” which almost word for word follows the Latin et cum spiritu tuo (in Latin, word order is not as crucial as it is in English, so the adjective tuo can be placed after spiritu).
Most of the changes are within the prayers the priests say, but there are some notable differences in the responses by worshipers. The Nicene Creed, the central profession of faith, now starts with “I believe in one God” instead of “We believe in one God.” Jesus is now “consubstantial with the Father” rather than “of one Being with the Father.” Communion begins with the words, “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof,” instead of “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you.”
The Latin phrase from the Nicene Creed credo in unum Deum indeed says “I believe in one God.” Saying “consubstantial with the Father” might seem a bit of a tongue-twister. The Latin reads consubstantialem Patri and “consubstantial” is about as literal a translation as you can get to consubstantialem. ”Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof” is definitely much more literal a rendition of Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, with intres the Latin word for “enter” and tectum meum meaning indeed “my roof” — though, in some ways, “roof” is itself a far too literal rendering of tectum whose basic definition is “roof,” but which is often used to mean “house.”
That is, some aspects of the translation of the new Roman Missal are too literal. Translating a text word-for-word is the most basic kind of translating; it is what you often get when you use Google Translate. Just converting the words of one text into the equivalents of another is not necessarily a translation or, that is, a translation that is more than basic “translatese,” a clunky-sounding text that rings odd in the language it’s been translated into, while still missing something from the original. Latin is a very different language from English in its sounds and its syntax and capturing the sound and sense of the original Latin requires more than just offering the English equivalents of Latin words.
Consider again the determinedly literal translation of  consubstantialem Patri as “consubstantial with the Father” rather than “of one Being with the Father.” The word consubstantialem itself means “of like essence, nature or substance.” A literal translation of the phrase  consubstantialem Patri could indeed be “of like essence with the Father”: Which version does this sound closer to?
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4:45am PST on Nov 28, 2011
I am used to a Buddhist ritual practice in Tibetan, so I see two aspects not commonly noted:
- a ceremony should have an aural beauty
- a translation should be inspiring and not merely accurate

I looked at the older English translation of the Mass several years ago, and found it wanting in several places. I haven't had a chance to look at the new one yet; but I think the use of the term "consubstantial" is not helpful: it conveys no feeling and very little meaning.

The translation should not be done by linguists alone, but also by poets.
4:21am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Who cares about how it's translated? As long as the meaning holds true, what does it matter how it's spoken? I'm not religious, so this whole thing seems quite rediculous to me. Haven't they got better things to do?!!
4:18am PST on Nov 28, 2011
I agree with Manuela B.
4:01am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Although I have to admit that I am not native English speaker I have to object "to literal translation of the phrase consubstantialem Patri could indeed be “of like essence with the Father”:" since there is difference between like substance that is similar and identical or in Koine Greek there is a difference omoiousios and omoiousios The former is heretical to be more precise Arianism whereas the latter is the position of the Roman Catholic but also of the Greek Orthodox Church And given the fact that the main purpose of the Synod of Nicaea was precisely to combat Arianisic positions there is no wonder that same is preferable rather that similar...
3:57am PST on Nov 28, 2011
So what?????
3:53am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Well, I cannot comment on the mass since I am not Catholic. However, I do have one question: Why is this headlined under "Politics"?? Especially with the current crop of right-wingnuts and the problems we are having with religion reaching its tendrils into every aspect of our lives whether we want it or not. Isnt this a "religious" problem, specifically a Catholic religion problem, not a Political one??
3:45am PST on Nov 28, 2011
About half of the "new" phrases were the standardized Mass used some 40 years ago, so what's really new? Consubstantial? Come on now! Say but the word and my soul will be healed.
3:43am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Closely following the Latin words and syntax is not really translation-this is just stilted. The point in translation is to translate meaning as much as possible and this kind of translation leads to lack of understanding. It would be better to go back to Latin or, better yet, use the old translation (or an updated improvement on it).
3:34am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Actually Rebecca the Original Bible was written in Several languages, Greek and Aramaic being among them.
3:34am PST on Nov 28, 2011
As a former High Church Anglican (not far off Catholicism in format) who is now a practising Baptist, I can certainly vouch for the old style - either Latin or archaic English - being more beautiful and eloquent. Unfortunately, it also leaves much of the congregation cold as they cannot understand it or struggle to follow it even when it is in their own language. Similarly, the idea of the same liturgy being repeated week in, week out smacks of "familiarity breeds contempt". I could sing the Creed off by heart quite happily while thinking about what I was planning to do for the rest of the day; I could even do that while singing in Latin. That's not the way to keep your mind on the business in hand.

At my Baptist church, however, there is very little set down in terms of format and most of the prayers are made up on the spot. They come straight from the heart and there is no contempt, because they are unfamiliar - you have to pay attention and therefore have a much better chance of digesting the meaning.
3:28am PST on Nov 28, 2011
It is so sad to see so many highly intelligent and worthy men, presumably of goodwill, wasting their brief lives in this world, troubled with so many real problems, on this kind of pursuits. I pray: "Lord, forgive them for they know not what needs doing..."
3:22am PST on Nov 28, 2011
thanks
3:04am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Well you know this pope was for many years the head of the office por the conservation of the faith which is the heir of the the inquisition,now he is not allowed to burn people ,but it is not rare that his vision of the church is so limited he was educated by the nazis ,he was a member of the nazis youth and a very devoted one ,as testimonials of german catholics affirm.His views are of a fanatical nature.
2:23am PST on Nov 28, 2011
Frances D.,

One (nor a bunch of others) can't be a religion...nor a nation in that respect, that too is a religious brainwashing attempt.
2:21am PST on Nov 28, 2011
"New Catholic Mass Translation Raises Doubts"

LOL..no more than the old version(s).
2:06am PST on Nov 28, 2011
they cannot say it in Hebrew because they can not speak it. they do not speak truth anyway,
1:17am PST on Nov 28, 2011
thanks
11:24pm PST on Nov 27, 2011
Yea... something is lost in translation, alright. What abut "Tho Shall Not Kill" how does that translate for the Pope who remains silent about the endless United States wars?

I know, he is only interested in tranlating the parts of the bible that refer to homosexuality as a sin.
10:40pm PST on Nov 27, 2011
why not translate it from the hebrew not the latin version...the hebrew after all was the original language the bible was first written in.
10:39pm PST on Nov 27, 2011
to each his own
10:39pm PST on Nov 27, 2011
I am a catholic and feel that there was more sincere prayer and reverence during mass when it was said in Latin.Maybe the congregration didnot follow exactly what was being said by the priest, but they were attentive and said their own prayers. I remember the dead silence and bowed heads at the Consecration,now people just say the words without thinking. I don't think the wording is as important to the people as it may be to the purists, and I don't think God is too bothered either.
10:18pm PST on Nov 27, 2011
Just what the church needs right now. More internal division.


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